Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:00:00  If we have been conditioned by all of these isms. So capitalism, sexism, racism, all of these things unfortunately create barriers not only systemically but within ourselves. And if you haven’t worked through those biases, it makes it a little bit harder to actually imagine a future in which those barriers aren’t placed on you.

Chloe Dechow 00:00:22  Hi, I’m Chloe Dechow, and with more than a decade of experience working with thought leaders, I’ve witnessed firsthand the impact of conviction combined with purpose driven entrepreneurship. This podcast shows you how to authentically bring together leadership, equity, and marketing to build your authority so that you can grow your impact and scale your business. This is a space for elevating women’s voices and redefining what it means to be a thought leader. Together, we’ll unlock the potential of our bright voices and create a ripple effect of change that resonates far beyond the realms of business. This is the Bright Voices in Business podcast. Now let’s dive into today’s episode. In this episode, we discuss sensitive topics including racism, sexism, homophobia, pregnancy loss, and fertility journeys, among many other topics that may be triggering and traumatizing for some listeners.

Chloe Dechow 00:01:22  So please take care of yourself and of any of these subjects. Feel too heavy for you? Feel free to pause or skip this episode. Your well-being is important to us. Welcome back to the Bright Voices in Business podcast. Today I have another very special guest who I’ve known for quite some time who’s joining me, and we’re going to talk about how to engage your community as a business owner and thought leader to ensure that we’re not creating more problems, and we’re actually being really smart and receptive and supporting the positive change that they’re looking for, Because sometimes when we want to make a positive impact, we can be a bit tone deaf if we’re not careful, and we can actually not serve the pain points that are communities and customers and local constituents are feeling, and instead provide solutions that aren’t actually necessary. Today I have Kadijha Marquardt-Davis with me and Khadija, and I also just similar to Diara, go back all the way to high school. So it is such a special treat to have her here with me.

Chloe Dechow 00:02:30  I know her so well personally, but to see her work in her professional zone is so exciting. So Khadija is the Director of Advocacy and Civic Health of Echo, which stands for Engaging Communities to Change Health Outcomes. Eccho is a civic engagement training program that seeks to improve community health outcomes by engaging those most impacted by generational and systemic racism. Prior to starting Echo, Khadija worked at the Wisconsin State Legislature as a policy advisor, and throughout her career, she has been an unwavering advocate for policies that promote social, racial, and reproductive justice. Kadijha. Thanks for joining me.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:03:12  Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here today.

Chloe Dechow 00:03:16  I am really excited to dig in to what you do because it’s really cool. So before we kind of dive into some of the ways that small business owners and thought leaders can engage thoughtfully with their community, can you tell us more about Eccho and its mission to engage communities to change health outcomes? I think that context would be super helpful for them.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:03:40  Yeah. So Eccho my baby. I was founded in 2022, and it was established through a grant that our executive director applied for, and it’s based on this concept of using civic health to improve overall health outcomes. So what that means is that research shows that people in communities that engage in civic action or civically engaged actually have better health outcomes. So, for example, communities that vote on a regular basis have high rates of volunteerism and actively share in the decision making of their community, such as one voting or attending, like committee hearings and other sort of civic related meetings and things like that tend to have better health outcomes. So that is why we’ve chosen to focus on civic health, because we know we can use it as a vehicle to improve overall health. And then unfortunately, here in Wisconsin, the communities that are typically hit the hardest with disparities tend to be black, indigenous or other people of color for a myriad of reasons, one of those being systemic racism and long generational racism as well, unfortunately, which is why our program has chosen to specifically work with Bipoc women within the Dane County, Milwaukee and Rock County area here in Wisconsin.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:05:00  So what our program does is it’s a nine month long training program, and within each county, there are ten people within a cohort, and they are working to implement a civic health project that improves the health of their community. So the first part of that training program is literally us like basically resourcing them them up. So we run them through the curriculum that I designed. They learn about civics 101. So like basically every level of government, how it operates and how they can interact with those levels of government based off, you know, whatever issues are coming up in their community. We also have a community organizing 101 section, a section on how to do a community needs assessment, and then also a section on like storytelling, just because like a lot of the times, people have really great experiences and really great stories, but sometimes struggle to be able to share those stories in a public manner. So we really want to make sure that we’re bringing people’s private problems out into the public through storytelling. There’s also an element of healing that we incorporate into our program, simply because a lot of the people that we work with have honestly like a lot of horrible interactions with the system, if I’m being honest, based on, you know, their race or their gender or their socioeconomic status, whatever the case may be, there tends to be a lot of unfortunate things that they’ve had to deal with as a result of that.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:06:25  And so by focusing on healing and being able to tell your story and share your story really helps to break down a lot of the barriers people might experience within their own minds about what they’re capable of. And then they also get to receive support from the people in their cohort and their local program coordinator to help them, like, ease through that and really talk about that. The cornerstone of Eccho is this concept of radical imagination. We really hit that hard. And basically what radical imagination is, is the thing that you do collectively, and it is for the improvement of the collective as well. Essentially, what it is, is dreaming of a world without barriers and dreaming of a world that no longer eases into the status quo and really seeks to end like ableism, racism, colonialism, like all of the isms and systems and things that honestly perpetuate barriers and harm against us as a society. But then particularly like women of color within our communities and things like that. Radical imagination is also a thing that social movements seek to do just because without it, if you don’t have a dream, or if you don’t have something that you can point to, it’s kind of hard to be able to run towards that and actually make change.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:07:40  And we really, really emphasize that it’s not an individual thing. Like it’s not something that you want to utilize just to improve yourself. It is to improve the overall community and the society that we live in. And so we try and strengthen that muscle within our cohort members and just overall within our communities. So that’s what Eccho is. And I couldn’t be prouder of it.

Chloe Dechow 00:08:01  It’s such a cool program. I can tell that it’s been really thoughtfully designed. And I imagine that’s because it’s been rooted in asking people what they need. So really following suit of like the program is an example of using the program, right? Yes. Like it’s very meta, but it’s super cool. Yeah. Let’s talk about radical imagination, because I know in the coaching world there is forms of this more usually, typically more on an individual basis of like if you want to improve your life outcomes. A lot of that starts with your own mind and like what you perceive to be possible for yourself and your life. When we have hope and a North Star to shoot for, it’s a lot easier for us to be motivated to show up for ourselves and for other people to figure out a plan of how to get there, right? If we don’t know where we’re going, it’s hard to get there.

Chloe Dechow 00:08:56  There is no there to get to. So we end up feeling lost and stuck where we are. Radical imagination is very much like that, but on a grander collective scale. And I think it’s such a really cool concept to talk about. And I know you and I have had conversations in the past about other forms of isms that maybe people aren’t as aware or talk about as frequently. So for people who can’t relate to racism directly, for example, or other types of isms directly, one that could be helpful as an example is and I know you named it for me, Kadijha. When we talked, it was capitalism, right? Like, we can we all can experience that to some degree. And so one of the things for an individual basis that I have felt in my life that, you know, we could think about from a radical imagination, collective standpoint is the fact that typically we don’t value as a society certain skills over other skills. And my experience with that is that I have always been an innately creative person.

Chloe Dechow 00:10:05  I used to write short stories when I was in I think I was six was the first time I started writing short stories. I wanted to be an author when I grew up. I was 11 and I asked for a duvet cover and a lamp for Christmas one year. I don’t know what 11 year old does that. That’s really weird. So I guess I’m a weirdo, but I was already showing signs of being interested in interior design and interior decorating. You know, in high school I took graphic design courses and photography, and I would be found in the dark room, the processing my film, in creating my photos versus, you know, out doing other things like sports and things like that. And getting ready to go to college. I really wanted to go to art school, but that wasn’t particularly received well because at least when I was growing up, the value that was put on people who created art or did things that were more artistic in nature, there’s this kind of concept that you can’t make a lot of money or support yourself doing art, right? Like there’s that struggling artist mentality that we carry.

Chloe Dechow 00:11:16  And as I’ve been in my 30s for a couple of years now, I have been finding that even though I have done more creative types of roles, like working in agencies where you do get to be creative and come up with ideas and run campaigns, there is still a part of me that feels like it hasn’t been as welcome for myself and from other people in the fact that I would love to start doing more creative things. So make a long story short, I have been playing with this idea of doing more art and digging in more to this piece of myself. And I know I’ve talked with other entrepreneurs or other people in my circle who are also thinking the same thing, and what’s really funny is what’s coming up for us is that every time we’re like, yeah, I want to enroll in a pottery class or yeah, I want to just start doing some paintings or whatever it might be. We instantly jump to, how can I make money off of that? How can that turn into a career? Should I start a business? What would that look like? What would I do with all the pots that I make of my pottery class? And we forget that maybe we can just do the art for art’s sake, for playfulness sake, for joy, for expressing ourselves instead of turning it into a career or a business or some sort of way to make income.

Chloe Dechow 00:12:38  And so that I know when we were talking in Khadija, that was like an example of capitalism and not Appreciating certain skills over others that might be innate right to some people more than others. Some skills over other types of skills that people may naturally gravitate towards. The other thing you and I chatted about was the fact that now artists today can make tons of money, because there’s this wonderful thing that also maybe has some pain points, but some wonderful, this wonderful thing called Instagram. And so there are people out there making a significant income through tools and technologies that didn’t exist back when I was in high school. And so I think it’s a really key reminder that as we pursue things today, what could be possible tomorrow, we don’t know. And so that’s my little microcosm of radical imagination.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:13:34  Yes, yes. So yeah, radical imagination, as you just said, dares us to dream of a better, brighter future in which all of the barriers that stop us from achieving that dream have been solved, essentially, or we know that we were going to progress enough to solve them along the way.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:13:50  So when I used to work in the state legislature, one of my favorite things to say was because I used to get really upset with how we used to negotiate stuff is that if you don’t shoot for 110% and you’re only shoot for 50% because that’s what you’ve been told is possible, you’re never going to get to the 110%. You’re going to settle for the 50%. And in fact, you’ll probably settle for even less than that because 50% was already air. Quotes unachievable. The thing about radical imagination, and when you know you’re doing it correctly, is people will look at you and tell you that it’s not possible. And that’s typically how I know it’s time for me to leave a place, because I thrive within thinking of endless possibilities and positive possibilities, as well of how we can get there. And if you tell me it’s not possible and it can’t happen, it typically means that you have not unlearned a lot of the biases and programming that our society has sort of like implemented in us from, you know, day one.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:14:42  So for using your example of you can’t be a creative or an artist because it’s not going to make you money. Someone with radical imagination is going to look at that and be like, that’s not right. The system is actually set up in a way that I have to earn money and be productive in order to be seen as valuable. And from my perspective, you just being a human being makes you valuable. I don’t give a shit about what you can produce or not produce or whatever. You should be able to find those moments of joy in creating art and not have to worry if you can pay your bills. Even people that are able to like, pay their bills and be creative. I see them getting burnt out because it is. It’s always has to be in the pursuit of money to so that we can sustain ourselves in this capitalistic society. And so for my radical imagination, I’m like, wouldn’t it be great if we could spend the billions of dollars that we have here in the United States on health care, housing, like housing as a human right, like regardless of how much money you have or whatever, we just get housing, period.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:15:37  We get access to a really good education. We’re not burdened by student loans and all of these things. And the reason we know it’s possible is because it has actually been created in other countries. And I think if we also dare to see the world in a slightly different place and understand that maybe we don’t have to fill our life with things all the time, and we can actually just have our experiences and create joy from that. Like, I keep thinking about the next iPhone drop or whatever. Like that is an inherent part of capitalism, of constantly feeling like you have to keep up and updating things when you have something that works perfectly well and you could actually just, you know, dive your attention into another area rather than having to, like, keep up with the Joneses or some little thing to, like sort of capture your attention, maybe instead of like putting all your time into making money, you shift that over into building community because it is actually community and the people around us and human beings that I think that we should be investing in, because that’s the ultimate resource.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:16:31  People are the ultimate resource, and they deserve to have housing, health care, all of these things, regardless of where they live and regardless of where they are in the world.

Chloe Dechow 00:16:39  So yeah, I am totally there with you, Kadijha. I think I believe that the reason to exist is a to exist, right? Like, the reason to live is to live.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:16:53  To live? Yes. And if that’s all you do, if that is all you do, that is you’ve done it. You’ve succeeded.

Chloe Dechow 00:16:59  Yes. And then it’s people. It’s the people in our lives, like all the other things are things. And it’s the people, the connection, the community, those that bring fulfillment and support and, you know, bring all that depth to our life, like life would not have as much depth without the people in it. So I love what you do and would love to also talk about how you help kind of unpack these mindset challenges that tend to come up during this process, because we’re all human and we all have been conditioned, some of us are a little bit more aware of it than others, but there will always be things that we are learning about ourselves, regardless of how much work we’ve done, regardless of how much inner exploration we’ve done, we will always learn something.

Chloe Dechow 00:17:47  So I think this is a really interesting step, and it’s something that entrepreneurs can use when they are doing market research to try to, you know, help with problem solving when they’re trying to build relationships with their community. How do you do this in the Eccho program? And what could an entrepreneur take away from what you’re doing and apply to their own business and their own work? Yeah.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:18:09  So one of the things that we really push, especially at the beginning of our program, is really breaking down the internal biases people have about themselves and the people around them. So, for example, like you just said, if we have been conditioned by all of these isms, so capitalism, sexism, racism, like all of these things, unfortunately create barriers not only systemically but within ourselves. So let’s say that you are a disabled black woman, okay? Pretty much your entire life, Systemically, you have been told that you have no value and you are treated as such in a lot of ways. And if you haven’t worked through those biases or things like that, it makes it a little bit harder to actually imagine a future in which those barriers aren’t placed on you.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:18:54  So one thing that we do and focus on at Petco, like right off the bat, is breaking down the internal biases people might have and how they think about themselves or just the broader community. So, for example, because of the the systems that we live within, we often look at people off jump and decide if they’re deserving or undeserving of our help, attention and care. And our government also does the same thing here in the United States. Fortunately or unfortunately, where you land on this, we tend to celebrate and cherish people. If you know, if you’re a white male who’s above the age of 40, you pretty much you got it made more or less like that is what our society tells us. And then everyone else is sort of like kind of undeserving and has to fight for the scraps and we challenge that completely regardless of your race, like white, black, whatever. We believe that all human beings are deserving. The example that I actually like to use of this is when I was working in the state legislature.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:19:51  It was during the pandemic, and it was at the height of the pandemic, and people were losing their jobs, losing their homes, getting their cars repossessed. And I distinctly remember being on the phone with somebody as they’re crying because they just lost their job. They don’t have any money. Their car is actively being repossessed as they’re on the phone with me. Their kids are yelling in the background, and they have no idea how they’re going to buy food or any of these things, and me pleading with them and begging them to sign up for food share, and then being like, no, I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to be seen as somebody on welfare. I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to do that because we have been conditioned for so long as a society that if you accept help or if you receive help, that you’re a welfare queen, that you’re this, that you’re, that, that you, you know, are the bottom of the barrel of society.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:20:41  When that is not true, that is not correct. You are in a moment of need and I want to help you. But because of all of these things that we have been pushed upon us can’t even do that, unfortunately. And so if you believe that about yourself, what does that mean? You believe for other people. So using that example is why within Eccho that we try and break down those thought processes first, because if you don’t believe at jump that you’re deserving of help, care and assistance. It’s honestly less likely. Or who knows, some people are able to do for others what they’re not able to do for themselves. But a lot of the time it’s, well, I didn’t get the help that I needed, so why should I help somebody else? And we don’t want that. We don’t want that at all. That’s not how you build community. That’s not how you do anything to to get people the resources that they need. So first people have to feel that they are deserving.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:21:32  And so how do you do that? You have to break down some of the racist events that might have happened to them. Like, why does your perception say that you, you know, as a dark skinned black woman are undeserving or not desirable? Like, is it you that came up with that thought, or is that a thought that was pushed down on you by society, let’s say? Yeah, that you might be lower income or just on the cusp of being lower income. And because of how society has told you to be, you feel like you have to be the most productive person on the planet. You’re throwing yourself at things to try and make yourself look as deserving as possible, so that you don’t have to be seen as like a welfare queen, or like whatever the hell else society wants to make you seem. And so that is why we really focus on breaking down those barriers initially within our participants, because they’re beautiful people and they deserve love, care and kindness and deserve help. And so we want them to break through that.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:22:26  So that way, when they get ready to go out and do their projects, they’re primed and ready to go. That not only are they deserving, but the people in their community are also deserving of love, care and support. And then another thing that we do as well is we really push the fact that this is community based. This isn’t about us as an individual. While yes, we want to break down those individual biases, it’s within the larger scheme of helping the society and the community. So yeah, that’s why we do all that.

Chloe Dechow 00:22:54  Yeah. So because this is a lot of this is rooted in essentially trauma. Right. Like the conditioning is rooted in trauma. It’s systemic. How can somebody who is maybe not trained in how to handle trauma or not trained in some of these areas, like how can they go in and help rather than harm? Like, do you have tips on how they should do that? Should they work with somebody who is more, you know, informed in how to navigate this, or is there what would you recommend to somebody?

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:23:24  So you actually don’t need to be like a trauma therapist or anything like that.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:23:28  It’s just the willingness to sit and bear witness to people and their stories. And so a lot of what we talk about as well is we’re not there to rush in and be the saviors for anybody. No community whatsoever like that is the least thing that we want to do. In fact, we want to come in as listeners and being of service to people. So that means actually polling people and getting to know the people that are already experiencing the issue. Because I guarantee with whatever you come in with, they’re going to be like, yeah, baby, we tried that already. This is how we’ve done it. And like, it didn’t work. Our plan for radical imagination means we got to do this. And so you just rushing in and thinking that you’re going to fix something like nine times out of ten is just going to piss some people off. And you honestly, probably, at that point in time don’t have the experience or range to be able to to be helpful. So when you do want to come into a place, I highly recommend finding people that are one already doing the work because there are, I guarantee you, there are somebody already there doing the exact same thing that you think you should be doing.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:24:29  And then research, research, research, research. Get to know the history of the issue. Get to know the people of the issue. Get to know the sides and what people are saying about it. But like, don’t do so much research that you get paralyzed. It’s just enough so that you have that background information before you go in. And then the third thing I recommend is to check yourself, to really examine yourself in the biases that you hold. So if I’m going to use this as an example, if you are a well-meaning white woman, like maybe come in and think about, all right, how was my whiteness going to show up in this space? How is my socioeconomic status going to show up in this place? Do I have the same levels of oppression and experience that the people that I’m working with? And if the answer is no, then dig a little bit deeper into yourself and see how you can uproot some of those biases that you might not even know that you you have until you really start working with people.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:25:20  Because if you’re going in, you’re constantly triggered because someone’s like people who make $400,000 like don’t deserve blah blah, blah, blah, blah. You freak out by that, like and want to push people away. It probably means that you haven’t had to work with a lot of people that make under $400,000 and who have a different life experience and experience the world in a different way than you do. And those are the people that you want to help. But there is a lot of space for people. We need allies. We need everybody honestly, radically imagining and putting in the action to to do these things. But take the time that is necessary and required to get to know the issue, to get to know the people and really examine your own traumas and biases first before you start going in and telling other people how they should handle theirs.

Chloe Dechow 00:26:02  Yeah, I totally hear that. And I had a couple things that kind of came up as you were talking. One is that it was interesting. I’ve always considered myself like a pretty open person.

Chloe Dechow 00:26:13  I, you know, I grew up in a family who had very specific beliefs, and then in a city that had very different beliefs than my family. And so I often found myself kind of in the middle of, like, listening and hearing what everybody had to say and trying to find, like the commonalities between groups of people, which is a good and a bad thing sometimes. However, I considered myself a very open person to different perspectives, and then it wasn’t until I went through my coaching experience and certification program that I realized how judgmental I actually was. And the reality is, is that we are all judgmental. That is kind of baked in. It’s part of the conditioning, right? It’s part of the things we’ve learned consciously and subconsciously. And like you said, like just really like digging into that and noticing like when you see something, what is the first thing you think in your mind, right. Like, what is that first thing you jump to and then checking yourself and be like, oh, that was unfair.

Chloe Dechow 00:27:10  That was judgmental. I don’t know anything about that person or I, I don’t know why they’re mad, but I jumped to this conclusion of this is why they’re mad. They’re having a bad day, or they hate their job or whatever. Like we don’t know unless we ask. So getting curious is super important. And then the other thing that kind of came up for me It that is more around, like reproductive rights or reproductive care was when I just give kind of like a personal example. When I was trying to have our first baby, I had two pregnancy losses. And anyone who’s gone through that, it’s a really complex thing to go through because it’s essentially a disenfranchised grief, meaning you are grieving on the inside for what you’ve gone through, but society doesn’t recognize it as a loss. And I ended up going through one loss and it wrecked me. And then I went through a second loss later that year, and it wasn’t until that second loss that I felt comfortable. I shouldn’t say comfortable.

Chloe Dechow 00:28:12  It was not a comfortable, but I felt called to talk about it more publicly and shed some light on something that I knew 1 in 4 women went through. And I remember even saying like, hey, I don’t want your advice. I don’t want your advice. I’m sharing this to shed light on the topic. Normalize it. That is an experience, and let other people know who maybe don’t feel as comfortable sharing publicly that they’re not alone. And what’s really interesting is, even though I explicitly said what I wanted, I still got lots of people giving me fertility advice. And when they did that, it felt like it was my fault again. Right? Because there’s a lot of self-blame that happens when you go through something that you can’t rationalize. And so, yeah, just thinking of like you want to come in with a perspective of listening and acknowledging, because what was worse than not saying something for me was like pretending it never happened. And so just speaking from that specific experience, listening, acknowledging that there is something going on with somebody, that they are like a hardship or whatever it is that they’re going through, and then being curious or educating yourself instead of giving advice right away because it’s so tone deaf for that person.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:29:39  It assumes you know better than the person actually experiencing the issue. And like that is the exact opposite of that’s not going to get you the results that you want. It’s going to actually end up shutting down the person that is experiencing the issue, because there’s probably so many different variables or barriers that you have not even thought of, that this other person is actively living on every single day. And so, yes, like meeting things with curiosity, not trying to rush in and save anybody or think that your advice is going to, you know, that you’re the exception to the rule or something like that. And yeah, like I think that’s a really poignant example, Chloe. And I’m sorry that people it makes me really upset too, that people thought that that would be okay to push that on you, especially when you were explicit, explicit about how you would want to be interacted with. And that actually goes into just overall of how people treat communities that might be different than theirs. It’s people explicitly telling the communities, explicitly telling people, this is what we need.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:30:39  We’ve been screaming it at the top of our lungs. We’ve explained it, but once again, you have not listened. What you’ve done is you have projected your own sort of experience onto something that probably doesn’t even align. You know, like we have very different worlds over here. And assuming that, you know, best. And that is what we want to avoid in all instances. Yeah. At minimum, be collaborative, be curious and ask the people what they want and then deliver on that.

Chloe Dechow 00:31:04  Yeah. And I’m curious your perspective on comparison of trauma or comparison of grief or experiences, because my experience has been when I’ve lost someone important to me or something, and then somebody else has also lost somebody important to them, I’ll give like an example. So I, I lost my grandma a couple of years ago, and I distinctly remember a leadership figure in my career who had a mom that had dementia and my grandma had dementia, and so I was like, hey, I understand that’s a hard thing to go through.

Chloe Dechow 00:31:39  And their response was, yeah, but it’s my mom. And for me, I was like, okay, I guess I get it, it’s your mom. It’s a different dynamic relationship. But I, I’m somebody who distinctly feels that comparing trauma, grief experiences literally helps nobody else. You know, we all have individual lives, individual stories, complex relationships. I can’t compare my pregnancy loss to other people’s pregnancy losses because they might feel completely different about it. You can have some solidarity, right, of going through something similar.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:32:12  Yeah, oppression Olympics is not a thing that we want to get into. It does not help anyone at all, ever. The only thing I will say about when solving problems is to always think about the person who has the. I hate using the word disparities. It has the greatest disparities onto them. So an example that is often used is for like reproductive justice or pretty much anything when thinking about how to solve a problem is thinking about how like a black trans disabled woman would interact and how that would impact her just because of like disparity rates.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:32:47  In terms of like I feel from our trans sisters, like the mortality rate for black trans women is abysmal and not because of anything that they have done, but because of like literally being murdered by people, unfortunately. And so, yes, showing solidarity in those experiences, not wanting to do oppression Olympics because it literally helps no one. And also thinking about how the most impacted person in your community is going to experience something. But just because the most impacted person is going to, you know, have the most impact, doesn’t mean that there’s not space for other people, and it doesn’t mean that those other things that have happened are invalid in any way We all experience trauma. We all experience barriers in our lives. Like that’s just the human experience. But yeah, I really love what you said about solidarity, because yeah, solidarity isn’t about like, who has it worse. It’s about standing aside people taking them as they are and who they are, and just knowing that the thing that you’re working towards is actually more important, because it’s the thing at the end of the tunnel that’s going to actually help both of you.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:33:45  In the end, we’re doing things with the black trans woman, disabled woman in our minds, but we know that this is going to ultimately end up propelling us all forward because we did it that way.

Chloe Dechow 00:33:54  Yeah, it’s kind of that all boats will rise mentality when we think that way. So let’s get out of the mindset piece for a bit and step into a possibility. What have you seen happen when you’ve gone through this process as part of the Eccho program, or other things that you’ve worked on? What have you seen like the transformation be for people within the cohort but also the greater community? Yeah.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:34:20  So yes, I would honestly say Eccho is a very transformative program and sort of process. To use an example of a final project that one of our cohorts did this year, they focused on reproductive justice, and how they went about this was very unique, I think, because they wanted to address a lot of the trauma of the women in the group of experienced, and then also set forth a solution that would help, like all women in the space.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:34:45  So essentially what that this group did is they did a performance piece. They put a play together called Purple Shampoo. Purple shampoo was a intergenerational storytelling event in which I believe there was six separate like scenes or narratives that were sort of played out and they all focused on a reproductive, I would say, injustice that the women had experienced when seeking reproductive health care. So unfortunately, here in the United States, particularly like black women and just people of color in general, when they go see the doctor, they have poorer health outcomes overall, like the research shows it time and time again. And it’s particularly true the darker your skin is like, regardless of race, the darker your skin is, the worse you tend to be treated in these environments. And so how they came to this project was sitting in their in their healing circle and talking about all the experiences that they had undergone. Like one woman ended up having a C-section for her first pregnancy and then for her next pregnancies. They really wanted her to have a C-section again, but she didn’t want that.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:35:50  She didn’t want that at all, and she really had to fight with her doctors in order to make that happen. And luckily, you know, both of her two next children were born vaginally. We can look at like what doctors say about that. But like ultimately that was her choice and that should be respected. But she she had to fight for it. She really, really had to fight for it. Another woman shared a story about how she was pressured by doctors to get a certain test done on her baby, and she ended up miscarrying the next day and was devastated. And this was after her vocalizing how scared she was and how nervous she was to lose that pregnancy as a result of this test. And then her worst fears were realized anyway. So it’s just the the play that they did was a collection of these stories. A lot of these stories were the first time these women have shared or told anyone about what had happened, and so it really helped them like be able to like, heal from that.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:36:41  But then the next step that they chose to take was to want to make sure that this the experiences that they had didn’t happen to anyone else. So they actually have been working with Planned Parenthood Wisconsin around piloting a program in which people can bring a companion with them into a doctor’s visit, but specifically a reproductive health visit to make sure that their needs are being met like that. You know, they’re being heard that they understand what the doctor is saying to them, not so much directing them on what to do, but, you know, moving alongside of them, journeying with them to make sure that their needs and their wants are heard explicitly and that they understand what’s actually going on so that they can make a really, truly informed decision about their reproductive health. And I’m so proud of them because yeah, like that is a prime example of turning pain into power, of bringing a private problem out into the public so that more people can benefit and know that they’re not alone. And it really helps to I’m really proud of them because they didn’t need to do this.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:37:40  They didn’t need to basically share their trauma like that. But they did and I couldn’t I couldn’t be prouder of them.

Chloe Dechow 00:37:47  So yeah, as you’re talking, I was like, I just want to acknowledge the courage. You know, it takes a lot of courage just to like, dive into your own experience, but then to be able to share that with other people so they feel less alone, that you’re you’re making an impact that takes tremendous courage. And so I just want to acknowledge what they’re doing for themselves and for others in this space. So through that experience, what changes or impacts has there been? Obviously there’s been an impact for them individually, but what other changes or impacts have you seen from that cohort?

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:38:21  They actually just wrap this up. They’re actually graduating this Saturday.

Chloe Dechow 00:38:25  Congratulations.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:38:26  So the impact we’re going to we’re going to see about. But I’m really interested to see what like having a companion be in like doctor’s visits could look like and yeah like what the health outcomes will look like overall as a sort of, you know, get shopped around and then hopefully implemented at one of the Planned Parenthood clinics.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:38:42  They’re based in Milwaukee. So in Milwaukee, it’s kind of like a similar thing of like having a doula in the room. I don’t want to call them a doula. Doulas do very special things, and I want to honor their sacred work. But it’s very much like that. It’s just yeah, having someone there, whether it’s a professionally trained person or someone that you know, just to journey alongside of you once again, community not doing things alone or in isolation. I’m very interested to see what that will do, because if the research is anything like doulas, like all the research shows, and a lot of ways that having a doula in the room with you. So an advocate or a companion with you Improves health outcomes and exponentially lowers cesarean sections. It lowers all these things. And while they’re not training to be doulas, they don’t have anything to do with doulas. At minimum, I’m interested to see if having a companion would have the same outcome, but in doctor’s visits, instead of in birthing rooms.

Chloe Dechow 00:39:33  fertility, pregnancy, childbirth all of it is so vulnerable. It’s such a vulnerable time for, you know, it’s a it’s also a time of strength in ways that you didn’t know were possible. But it’s a vulnerable time to go through that. And I can’t imagine having gone to, you know, there were appointments that I did have to go to without my husband, but I was lucky to have him there during the days where we got the worst news. And I can’t imagine having to go through that alone. So what that cohort is doing is so, so beautiful and supportive, and I’m excited to you learn more and kind of follow along and see how that changes things. Yeah.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:40:13  Me too. Yeah, I can’t I truly cannot wait to see the long term longitudinal outcomes that this program will have.

Chloe Dechow 00:40:21  that’s a really beautiful example of how using this process can influence change for not just one person, but a group of people. When we think about business owners, you know they can influence change, but the container might look a little bit different in how they do that.

Chloe Dechow 00:40:39  And so I’m curious, Kadijha, what you would recommend once they’ve listened, they’ve educated themselves. They’ve really gotten to the core of the issue rather than putting a Band-Aid over it, so to speak. What can they do within their own influence, their own sphere or their own network, to create some positive change or help others create positive change in serving their community?

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:41:02  Yeah. So once they’ve done that initial research and done all the things that they need to do, a really powerful thing that I think that a business owner can do, because time and time again, you know, we always when I was in the state legislature, it was always like, well, what do business owners think about this? Or like, what’s the bottom line or bottom dollar going to be? So if you as a business owner know that reproductive justice or reproductive health is like high on your priority list, like especially if you were a man, let’s also shout out men because men have a place in the work of reproductive justice.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:41:31  If you were to, let’s say, go to a hearing, you find out because you’re signed up to your local legislative notification system, you know, you’re tapped in, you’re getting the newsletters, you have all the information coming in, and you see that there’s a bill or a committee hearing coming through about a reproductive health related thing. You as a business owner can go in and testify on behalf of that bill and explain how by having this in place, it’ll help you as a business owner. And from what I have seen during my time at the state legislature, is particularly those legislators that are really concerned about business and money, they love hearing that stuff. It speaks to their heart in a way that maybe, you know, a story about a child and her mom. Like, won’t you know, by continuing to have contraceptive care be offered here in the state of Wisconsin? This is going to help my business in XYZ way. I’ve been working with XYZ organization already around this, and I’ve already seen great improvements to my business and to my community as a result of this.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:42:33  This is a thing that I think all business owners should sign on to. Yada yada yada. So one being an advocate and then because you are already tapped into that community, you’re talking points match the talking points of the people that are experiencing the issue. And then another way that you can go about this is not just advocating or showing up to committee hearings, but it’s actually implementing the values that you have around a particular issue into your business model. So for the example I always like to use is that of incarcerated people. So like let’s say that you have a really big passion for helping incarcerated individuals and that you as a business owner want to push that forward. Well, if you feel that way, then maybe you should be hiring some ex incarcerated individuals into your business. What does that look like to have them there? Like, maybe that means that you don’t ask people what they’ve been incarcerated for. You set policies in ways that makes it so that if someone’s on probation, you know you’re there to be like, you know what? They’re on probation.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:43:31  That’s cool. But yeah, or maybe you have more flexibility for the people that have been formerly incarcerated so that they can meet with their probation officer and stuff like that. So essentially, you want to set up your business and policies to actually reflect the values that you have and what you’re trying to do in the community. That’s the difference between theory and practice is it’s great to have the theory and all the background knowledge and research, but if you don’t actually put it into practice and practice your values, what’s the point? It doesn’t really go anywhere. So you have to take action. And then hopefully, I would hope that by you having that experience of employing formerly incarcerated individuals, you now serve as a model for other businesses in your community about how they can go about doing that. So it’s just really living the values of all the things that you’ve researched and then putting them into practice.

Chloe Dechow 00:44:21  I love that because I think it takes what can feel like a really, really big problem. And you’re just one person.

Chloe Dechow 00:44:27  It can feel insurmountable to be able to move the needle on something, but you actually do have control and influence, whether you’re a business owner or not, to be able to make change. And one of the, you know, following your incarcerated individual example, you know, one of the things I thought about was like, mom’s right. Like, if you’re a business who’s passionate about serving moms, maybe like you provide a product or service to that group of people, what could that look like in your business to follow suit? Right? Maybe you have your remote only business. You’re flexible with the hours people work. You have really great benefits and parental leave. You talk to your moms and see like where they’re having hard time with like if they’re having a hard time with childcare. Right. Like getting really to the root of like what is preventing them from showing up to be successful or showing up as their best selves in your business. And that kind of work creates engaged, happy employees who perform higher and also creates some level of loyalty for them.

Chloe Dechow 00:45:33  And not just them as your employees, but also the customers you serve, right? The customers. I think people are getting smarter about where they spend their money, which is great. And so customers want to know that you actually walk the walk, that you actually do what you say you do, that you actually live out your values. And I think this is like a great practical way that people can take that theory and actually put it into practice. And it does make an impact. Every little tweak you make impact somebody, whether it’s an employee, a customer, someone in your local community, whatever it might be. And instead of kind of like wiping your hands clean and being like, I can’t do anything about this. I don’t have the power to change this or this is good enough. 50% is good enough. I think Khadija has given some really practical ways that you can use radical imagination to change the outcome. For people who your business touches in some way, shape or form. I think it’s a beautiful and powerful work.

Chloe Dechow 00:46:35  So thank you for showing up today and sharing your experience, sharing about the cohorts that you’ve been putting through your Eccho program. Is there anything you want the listeners to really take away today? Like what if you had like 1 or 2 messages you really wanted them to remember from today’s conversation? What would they be?

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:46:55  So many things. But yeah, dare to dream. Dare to dream big and help to cultivate the muscle of radical imagination within yourself, your community, and the people that you serve. Because that’s one way that we’re going to jump over these hurdles and change this idea of the status quo. And then the thing that I have also been practicing within my overall just community work and working with people is that ultimately it’s not about you. It has actually nothing to do with you. And taking things personal as you work through these things doesn’t really help. And so, as we’ve been saying throughout this entire podcast, it’s come with curiosity, come with respect. And then, yeah, just be of service to people and know that a better, brighter future is possible and that you are also key to it as well.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:47:39  That’s beautiful.

Chloe Dechow 00:47:40  Kadijha, where can people go if they want to learn more about you and what you do?

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:47:44  So I’m trying to be better at social media, but you can find me on my LinkedIn. I’m assuming that Chloe will put that out there, but yeah, as you heard, my name is Khadija marquart Davis. I’m sure she’ll spell out my full name in the bio so that you can actually find me. But yeah, please feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn or Instagram as well. And please also just check out our website, which is. why Eccho Wisconsin dawg so spelled out. It’s www.ecchowi.org you could find all of our beautiful materials there, and then you can also find my work email there as well. And then another thing that people should know is if you, as a business owner or just a person of the community, have any desire to like implement a program that’s like Eccho or, I don’t know, even want to run your own sort of cohort.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:48:35  I write curriculums, I can put a training together for you, and I would be more than happy to do that. So feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn, my email and we I can get that together for you. Perfect.

Chloe Dechow 00:48:45  And those links and places to find Kadijha and the work she does will be in the show. Notes. Thank you. Thank you so much Kadijha, for showing up, sharing this message, empowering people that they can make an influence even when something feels really big and scary and encouraging everyone to have a little bit more curiosity in the work that they do and the impact that they want to make in the world.

Kadijha Marquardt-Davis 00:49:09  Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Chloe Dechow 00:49:16  Thank you for joining me today. If you enjoyed this episode, invite your entrepreneur friends to tune in. Don’t forget to connect with me on Instagram at West Haven Coaching. I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode and continue the conversation with you there. And before you go, be sure to download my free guide, Five Steps to Building Your Authentic Authority, which will walk you through how to grow your thought leadership in a way that’s true to who you are and what you stand for.

Chloe Dechow 00:49:45  You can find the guide at westhavencoaching.com/steps or follow the link in the show notes. Thanks again for tuning in. Together we are changing the faces and voices of thought leadership. Until next time, keep leading with authenticity and impact.